Real Basic Stuf

[macnext1]

I kinda poked around in the Router Basic Forum and decided it was gonna be WAY too much information since I really don't want to know alot about networking or routers. I just need the really basice information to get me started and then maybe know enough to ask an intelligent question. I have a basic system (Gateway 505GR). I have 2 modems. I run an Ethernet cable to one of the modems and connect to the internet through that connection. When I need/want to use the other modem I disconnect the cable and run it to the other modem (change the LAN settings) and then can connect through my other ISP. I would like to run this conglomeration through a router and after that's all working I would like to connect a recently acquired laptop wirelessly to that router.

So I'm looking for pointers to the basic kind of stuff this would entail.

Mac

[Evan]

Mac,

The first piece of hardware you need is a wireless router.  The router will allow both your disktop and laptop to "talk" to each other and the wireless part will let your laptop connect with either a ethernet cable or wirelessly.  I recommend looking over our wireless setup guides to get an idea of what you have to do to set up the wireless connection.  For a small home set up I'd recommend the Linksys or Netgear brands.

-Evan

[macnext1]

Evan, as far as I know, I do not have wireless capability in my Gateway system. The Gateway and the two modems communicate with wired Ethernet I guess I kinda thought that they would still talk the same way -- just through a router instead of hardwired. Then after that was all working add the laptop into the mix. It should be painfully obvious to the casual eye and imminent to the trained eye that I know squat/silch.nothing about networking.

Mac

[Evan]

Mac,

You're doing fine (it can be very confusing!).  Your understanding is 100% correct.

When I first tried to set up a home network I had a Cable modem for my internet connection, the modem connected to a router (because the modem can only communicate to 1 device in your network), and I had two devices connected to the router so both could use the same internet connection. I wanted to make a wired computer's connection into a wireless connection so I bought a wireless adapter for the computer (my line of thought started at the computer instead of the internet at that point).  I could understand why I couldn't connect to the router...

I find it easier to mind map all this by starting with the Internet and working my through to the last device.  That way it's a straight path till it splits (at the router).

The point is that furthest the internet could get was to my router.  It didn't have a built in wireless antena to broadcast the signal so my wireless I added on the computer didn't have anything to receive (just like a radio broadcast and your car radio..if you bought a radio but there weren't any radio signals/channels then it would be useless).

Since you have two internet connections you could put the Gateway computer on one and the laptop on the other...but they couldn't share files.  If you want both computer to share 1 ISP connection (either one or both ISPs) then you need a router.  If you get a wired only router then you have to connect the laptop to it with an ethernet cable.  If you want to use the wireless connection of your laptop then "something" has to be sending out a wireless signal.  That is called an Access Point (AP), (similar to a radio tower).  You can buy one separately but it cost the same as buying a Wireless enabled Router.  It doesn't everything the wired one does but also sends out a wireless broadcast that you can use to connect the wireless laptop.

***I wasn't sure of a way one could take two separate routers (each connected to a separate ISP) and effectively have them communicate.  I decided to ask an expert for some advice.  Scott Mueller, thankfully, provided assistance in his forum.  The post can be viewed here.***

Since you have 2 ISPs then there isn't a simple way to connect them to your 1 home network (a.k.a. LAN).  You would have to get a Dual WAN Router (WAN=Internet connection).  

***I'd like to thank Mr. Mueller for providing all the following links.***

You're not going to find one that is wireless though...so you could buy a wireless Access Point or Wireless Router. An Access Point and Wireless Router cost about the same so get a Wireless Router and I'll show you how to turn off the routing function.

The Cisco RV042 is about the cheapest good Dual WAN Router. You can read, in detail, about it here.

Check out the links, especially in the previous paragraph, and let me know what questions you have.

-Evan

[macnext1]

Well I went to the suggested material -- it had several routers listed so I picked the first one and brought up the set-up information. Was immediately snowed under. So I took that model and googled it. I found this very short description.

"The Linksys BEFW11S4 is an 802.11b WiFi wireless router designed for sharing an Internet connection to a broadband modem. Like many other Linksys wireless routers, the BEFW11S4 includes four Ethernet ports for wired connections. It supports up to 128-bit WEP encryption only (no WPA). Linksys no longer manufactures the BEFW11S4; it can be acquired through various reseller outlets."

First things first, I don't know what an 802.11b WiFi is but I'm gonna assume for the sake of my sanity that my modems and PCs can handle that (or if they can't you'll point me towards the right thing) but in the meantime we can (just for now) assume it is golden and discuss the connections it would require. Needless to say I don't know a WEP from a WPA and probably don't want to know.

So it would appear that the router would go like this:

1. I have the Internet coming in from a Centurytel telephone line to a DSL modem and from the modem via an Ethernet cable to the router. Then that signal would be broadcasted to anyone (like me and my laptop sitting the kitchen) to be captured and linked up to the Internet.
2. If I wanted the Gateway to get to the Internet through the Centurytel telephone line then I would run an Ethernet cable from the Gateway to the router.

At that point the Gateway and the laptop are both on the Internet but not able to share files or printers.

Is the above true?

If true I'll ask some more questions about files/printers/satellites -- no point if not true.

Mac

[Evan]

You're exactly right on point 1 and 2.  Actually, at that point both computers can share files and printers.  It might not be enabled by default but it can be easily changed.

The 802.11b WiFi is just a particular type of WiFi. It is old and if you get a "Wireless G" (such as the Linksys WRT54G) that router "understands" wireless B.  Wireless N is the newest and isn't finalized, faster than you need, and more expensive (but it does understand Wireless B, G, and N....see a patern?)

WEP is older than WPA (same as wireless B is older than wireless G) and isn't as secure (from nosey neighbors trying to steal your internet resource), which for you, IS important.  If you're wireless isn't secure (I can "see" 2 or 3 unsecured wireless networks from my house at any given time) then "anyone" could use your internet connection and use up your allowed bandwidth.

So far you're right on track.  If you followed your directions, you'd have a LAN (local area network) setup and running.  This is taking into account only 1 internet connection.  But we have to take it one step at a time.

-Evan

[macnext1]

The other day I was poking around WalMart and I saw that they have a LinkSys Wireless Router. I (of course) didn't pay it much mind since I "knew" I didn't have anything wireless (other than the laptop). Ah, but now I am thinking I should have paid more attention to what model it was.

So (just to make sure I'm on the right track), when a router says it is wireless it is referring to the fact that IT will BROADCAST wireless. Yes?

Since you're in today (and I've got nothing but time and curiosity), I'm gonna wait to see your reply to that one before I ask more questions (the old "one beebee at a time").

I will add though that although my nearest neighbor is about 1/4 to 1/2 mile away I would certainly be interested in security.

Mac

[Evan]

Yes, you should have paid more attention but you didn't know.  Just be glad you didn't ask for some advice...who knows what you would have been told.


You're EXACTLY right.


Partly right.  I have a family event to go to in a couple of hours...


About.com's article: What Is the Typical Range of a Wi-Fi LAN?...says "A general rule of thumb in home networking says that 802.11b and 802.11g WAPs and routers support a range of up to 150 feet (46 m) indoors and 300 feet (92 m) outdoors."

I'd say you're fine seeing that a mile is 5,280 feet...  

-Evan

[macnext1]

Ok, so here we are with Internet coming in the room via a DSL modem, we got 2 PCs sharing files and printers, and both them going to whole world, and we're all happy.

Uh Oh DSL just went down. Quickly swap cables so Internet coming from satellite is attached to Gateway (uh Router), change internet settings (on the Gateway) to use proxy server. May or may not need to reboot but yippee we're up and running, off to play on-line poker with our buddies while the kitchen staff (using their laptop in the kitchen via Lan)is searching for new recipes out yonder on the Magical Web.

So I'm hoping that you at this point would interrupt this charming little scenerio to tell me -- "Wait Mac, You have a router in the mix now". "No more swapping cables for you my man". "Let me tell you how this is REALLY gonna work".

Enjoy your time with your family -- hold them close for as long as you can. There is NOTHING that comes before family, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

Mac

[macnext1]

At Walmart I see 3 possibles.

LinkSys WRT54GS    50.00 Back of box has 4 inputs labled wired boxes
LinkSys WRT54GS2   50.00 Back of the box has 4 inputs labled 10/100
NetGear WGR614     44.00

Couldn't see much difference in any of them. Any of them strike your fancy?
I did notice that all 3 only show one connection to the internet, so maybe my days of cable swapping are not over yet.

Mac

[Evan]

Are those the prices (50.00, 50.00, 44.00)?

The difference between the two LinkSys Routers is the 2nd one (WRT54GS2) is just the second generation of the 1st one.  It has the new look (not the old blocky look).  The "S" is for speed boost which you won't gain any extra benefit from unless you have a wireless "speed boost" adapter on your PC.  Your laptop came with a wireless adapter and it isn't a LinkSys speed boost, and your Gateway computer doesn't have wireless.  If you want to go with LinkSys see if you can find a WRT54G (no "S").  If it is the same price or VERY close to the WRT54GS2 then go ahead and get the GS2.

I'd personally recommend the following: the LinkSys WRT54GL, which you can get for $54.99 with free shipping.  This is the same thing as the WRT54G except it has a little more power and memory and you can change the firmware to something other than LinkSys.  You get a much better router (though more complicated) if you change the firmware.  That is actually exactly what I did at my house.

I'll need to take a look at the NetGear one...but NetGear is a solid brand too.  I'll need to look into it to say for sure.

In regards to your previous post, the way you described setting up your network, you had everything right except that you could share files between the computers (using simple file sharing) and also you would have to manually switch between ISPs.  To get around that you still need to go with a Dual WAN Router.  I can point you in the direction of a few you could consider...but they run about $250.00.

-Evan

[macnext1]

I can swap a whole bunch of cables for $250. Just need to make sure that my wife can get to the cables. She is in a wheelchair so it can be difficult for her reach some things. I am using very short Ethernet cables right now (she can lean over, under the desk and swap cables) maybe with a router I can use some longer cables and position the router some where she can easily reach. If I can't come with a workable solution I'll scrap the router (sell it on EBay at a loss) and we can talk about Dual Wan Routers.

Since the WRT54GL is the same as you have, it would probably be much easier on you to take me by the hand to get it set up, so point me towards where to get the one like you have.

Have I mentioned lately how much I appreciate your help? Probably not. So let me take the opportunity now. Thanks for all of your generous assistance.

Mac

[Evan]

Did you get a chance to read what a Dual WAN Router is?  I forgot to post that link in the post from a few days ago.  You should read that so you understand what I meant.

How short of a cable are you using?

-Evan

[Evan]

Mac,  Look at the post where I first mentioned the WRT54GL.  There is a link to a listing for that router on www.newegg.com.

I looked into it a little more and it appears that the WRT54GS and WRT54GS2 can provide all the advantages of the WRT54GL (basically just more memory and a faster processor...=faster router).  So, depending on the price any of those could be a fine choice.  I'll talk a look into it a little later and double check.

-Evan

[macnext1]

I haven't done any reading about the Dual WAN but I probably should. If in fact it would allow me to switch back and forth betwen ISPs without any manual intervention and IF there is only about $200 difference then I MIGHT be able to con my wife into thinking it would be a good way to go. I need to do some reading.

WRT54GL -- sorry, I didn't see the link so I haven't done that EITHER.

I've been spending far too much time jacking around with that laptop, (ah -- be honest now; too much time playing poker too).

I was up at 1:30 yesterday and today but didn't check to see if you were available. Once again poker and laptop backup.

I'll bet I get a better shot at sleep tonight (less than 5 hours 2 days in a row is taking it's toll).

Cables are short - 3 feet I think.

Mac