Public IP issue

[Sylvmeister]

Hey.
I've run across a really nasty problem that I haven't been able to
figure out myself Shane's tools have been a great help for me so I thought maybe someone here can help me!

So I switched my router today. The problem is that I can no longer connect to my own public IP. Now I know this sounds strange as one is not supposed to connect to his own external IP but  i'm using mysql and apache to host my own little server where I have some databases and website.

Now I've set up a dynamic DNS and changed my hosts file accordingly. (external IP - DNS name) (also tried with default hosts file but no luck) and always when my services were running (apache & mysql) and I put my DNS name = external IP to my browser, it took me to the index of my site.   Now however, all the settings are the same, only different public IP after router change, DNS linking updated and so on but now when I put my dns name (or new public IP) to my browser , it is unable to resolve host and returns me "couldn't connect" error or similar.

What is blocking my access? Ports forwarded and tested, no services interfere with each other.. and well I can't think of anything else.... I've tested seemingly everything. I put down firewalls, put myself into DMZ, which gave me all ports opened BUT still I can't connect to my public IP any longer... My friends outside my lan can, however.

So if you took your time to read through my wall of text, I really hope you can help because I really have to get it working. And no I don't want an easy solution like connecting through my lan IP because it has to work other way too. I'm running a gameserver as well and when I put my public IP everyone else can connect but me.. and if I put my lan IP it's the other way around so please please help me ! It worked before.. with same setups, other router !

Thanks in advance
Sylv.

PS. old router = Telewell EA-501
    new router = D-Link DSL-2640B (eu firmware v4.0)

[Evan]

I can see how that would be very frustrating, especially if you were able to before the router change.  Since you've already said that the only change you made was switching to a different router I suspect the router you are using doesn't support navigation to your public IP from the LAN side.  We've seen routers that are simple designed to not allow that.  If that is the case then you're only choice would be to use a router that will allow this (like your previous one).

Since you say your friends can access your server from outside your router we know the DNS is working properly.  I'm not saying you can't get around it, I'm just saying it's a possibility.  Shane can hopefully provide a little more insight since he has more experience with D-Link routers.  We will both do everything we can though to help you out.   

Evan

[Shane]

When you try to connect to your network from your network with the internet IP that is called reverse NAT. and some routers simply don't like it! In fact most don't.

Your going out to the net then back in.

But it is easy to get things to work like you want.

You setup your server to use your local ip instead. Not your internet IP.
Then when YOU connect while on the same network you use the local IP. When you connect from else where or yours friends connect you will use the internet IP. The port forwarding rules send those to the local ip anyways.

So just change your server around to use the local IP and your fine. The reason it worked before is your old router handled the reverse nat. and it was doing it no different if you where using your local ip is all.

let me know how it goes

Shane

[Evan]

Thank you for finishing where I was going with that Shane.  I haven't felt well today and just couldn't remember how to get around it and tell him.  I knew what was going on is that his old router was doing work for him and I wanted to go ahead and let him know that.   

I knew the problem but with the lack of sleep I just couldn't remember the solution.  So yeah...there you go Sylvmeister.   

Evan

[Sylvmeister]

Thank you both very much for taking the effort to explain me because yes, this thing got me really stressed after 12 hours of testing, configuring and more figuring.. huh. Well since I live in EU, I just woke up and I'm heading to school but after that I'll configure it like you said Shane and will see what happens.

Actually I believe I already did that as well within those 12 hours of testing. My router uses dynamic DHCP routing but it had an option to reserve static dhcp rule for my computer. So I did. Now my LAN IP is always 192.168.1.3 and that was what I tried to put in the server realmlist file but then it wasn't working for friends. However I had alot issues with public IP there as well.. in the beginning. So after I got the ports fixed it might just work

Well guys, thanks alot and I will get back to you after school

Have a good day!

Sylv

[Shane]

Let me know 

Shane

[Sylvmeister]

Well, hasty as I am, I couldn't wait and ran a quick test in the morning. And it didn't work. Well it worked for website but not for gameserver.
Also I came to think of that my actual gameserver and logonserver which are linked to each other, both have LAN IP as host adress in my config files. So I think that was what you meant Shane. And since ports are open, people from outside are able to connect to my logonserver using my internet IP. So they get connected to my logonserver which takes them to realmlist (where they can choose the realm they want to play in. That's where they gan get into actual game.) But logonserver and worldserver use database information and now the funny part is that every guide out there on how to make your server public, tells you that you have to configure both logon and world(game)server to be hosted on LAN IP but then they say that into the realmlist config you have to put your internet IP in order to let people from outside to make a connection to the realm.

Now in my case I get something that in emulation world is called a realmloop. That means I can connect to my server so I can see my game realms BUT I can't establish a connection TO these realms. It's like halfway there isn't it. But now you said that most routers don't allow reverse NAT. The how are these guides working for everyone else that has configured the server same way as I? I assume that most of these people have new routers that naturally won't allow reverse NAT either. Yet are they able to connect ?

Now I'm clueless once again.
 
Whole connect-to-server structure should be like this:

1) I start up worldserver and logonserver applications that are linked together
2) They both read info from config files that give instructions and adress for connection to SQL databases (paths)
3) From the database realmlist table, the worldserver reads ream name and settings (also realm address) and
after it has done that, it presents the realm in the realm listing when you log into the server using game client.
4) people connect to my logonserver , after connection is successful, they can see actual realmlist.
5) people connect to desired realm (in my case, there's just one realm)

Now me and eevryone else can successfully make connection to logonserver and they see realms (which means they also have connection to worldserver) BUT they cannot connect to my realm. That's because I have lan IP in the database. If I set it to internet IP (as it should be) everyone except me can connect. That I can understand as a matter of reverse NAT , but then yet it works flawlessly for other people with routers that don't allow reverse NAT. So is there any possibilities left ?

Sorry for the long explanation but I hope I made myself clear and you got an overview of the exact situation.

Sylv.

[Shane]

Makes perfect sense

The reason for the internet IP for the database is when users are logged in that Ip is sent to them. Thats how their client knows to connect to the database.

So you should keep it setup like that.

So now that everyone else is working we need to get you connected. And because of the router not liking the reverse nat we need to find another way.

Just for information purposes here is more info on reverse nat ( i know you don't have a netgear lol)
http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/992

Reverse NAT, not supported by NETGEAR, and not a common process for a typical home user, converts all requests for Internet IPs into different addresses. NETGEAR equipment does not hide public IP addresses, and therefore cannot do Reverse NAT. The term Double NAT is used for non-NETGEAR equipment when both NAT and Reverse NAT are used.

Now I haven't tried, but it should work, is for you to set your client or computer to connect to your game through a proxy. (There are some free ones on the net)

What that would do is you are connecting to a proxy then the proxy is used to connect to your game.

Its worth a shot

Shane

[Sylvmeister]

I'll definitely give it a try but now.. my common understanding of free proxies is that your computer connects to some other server and then, in my case, back to me. Isn't that going to slow down my connection, possibly reducing overall performance ? If yes then what could help, paying for proxy service ? Or am I totally wrong maybe? let me put it this way: Can I find free proxies that would be able to handle many connections with minimal speed reduction ? I mean my link speed is relatively slow already. 8Mbits/1Mbit. Or do I have to pay for a private proxy in order to maintain my networking performance ? And also there are different types of proxies. Ones that are used to handle http requests and others that are for servers etc. right? I might be talking bull**** now as I have very little experience using proxies and I don't know much about them so It'd be great if you explained me a little more before I dive into action.
So which type of proxy should I use and how should I set it up ? Using some application or in router settings or ?
Also since you're a networking guru, probably you know and could point out some good proxy providers ?

I don't want to become trouble for you guys here by any means so I surely can do all the searching myself but of course it would make things a lot easier for a beginner like me to get a little more info so I don't accidentally pick the wrong type of proxy or whatsoever.

(Oh btw I think the final result is the same  but just to point out that the public IP values we were talking about are the ones already stored in the database in order to connect to something else, not to the database itself.. or maybe .. I really don't know, that's where I lost trace. However one has already established connection to mysql server to get that value from my DB   I just don't know how it works from there but I think u're still correct about what you said. The proxy solution sounds reasonable. So write me back when you can just to make sure. I'll do a little research about proxy providers in the meantime

Sylv
Sylv

[Shane]

You would only need the proxy for you. All other users will connect like normal.

So it depends how much speed you need. and yes some if not a lot of the free proxies can be slow depending on their load and location.

What our goal is, is to get you and only you connected to your server while your on the same network. But because your new router doesn't support reverse nat you cant connect. While all other users can.
So the trick is to get your connection to come in from somewhere else. Thus no longer reverse nat. This is what the proxy will do.

And please make sure you don't put your server behind the proxy, this will just be a nightmare.

Now not knowing the game and the client makes it hard for me to help fully.
Do you connect through a web browser? if so you can put the proxy settings right in the browser without affecting the rest of the system. (Use firefox if you can)

just google free proxy and start trying a few of them for your self and see if you can connect. As long as your users can connect your server setup is done. Now we need to setup up you as a client


Shane

[Sylvmeister]

Oh sorry I thought you were offline heh. You can also take a look I tend to update my replies after I post them. So have I done with the last one as well. Added some information and corrected some grammar mistakes So take a look.

Yep I totally understand the logic here about the connections.
But well, it's world of warcraft private server I'm hosting for my friends so basically they connect from their clients directly to my computer as the client has it's own file where it stores IP address of the server it's supposed to connect to. So that you can tell the client where it shall connect. No webserver in between. So how should I use proxy ? As if i configure my router to use proxy, my whole server gets put behind proxy right ? Now that's not good. So what should I do ?

[Shane]

So we need to get the WoW client to use a proxy and not the router or computer. We dont want anything but the client to use the proxy.

Of course I did a quick google search on it and it doesn't look to be an easy task.

Honestly, your looking at a lot of work do get your local client to work because of the reverse nat. It might be a MUCH easier solution to get another router that can do reverse nat and keep your headache to a minimum lol.


But there may be one more way to get this to work, no new hardware.

Your router is also you dsl modem. You could put the modem is bridge mode. What this means is the modem will no longer be a router. The internet IP will be passed to your computer (If you have more than one machine then this wont work)

One cheap solution
is to buy a cheap linksys that supports the custom dd-wrt firmware. (I use dd-wrt and I can reverse nat)
You would put your dsl into bridge mode to get it out of the way. The linksys would then get the internet ip. The dd-wrt firmware gives you a ton of control and will give you reverse nat support. A lot of the linksys routers can have the dd-wrt installed.

This would all be pretty easy.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190&cm_re=wrt54g-_-33-124-190-_-Product

http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index

And you would have total control. But that is up to you if it is worth all it. Point is anything else you try to do that requires reverse nat is going to get in the way otherwise.

Shane

[Sylvmeister]

Oh! This is getting nasty
Well I do have bridged connection type.
At least that's what I read from my ADSL setup page (I added a screenshot)
Also Router/modem whatever, has lan connection to one computer and wlan to 4 other PC-s

But all that aside.... I still cannot stop thinking about the fact that it isn't supposed to be
such pain in the @$$ as there are maybe hundred other guys that know basically nothing and yet they have it working.... They simply follow a noob guide and they have it working. I have done all that for ages ago and still it has some weird error. I mean these guys... I hardly believe they needed to change any hardware, set any proxy or whatsoever. Also I don't believe they all have routers that support reverse nat

Is that still possible that the problem is something completely different?

Huh... I don't think this headache will ever end.. I'm used to help others with computer stuff .. daily in fact.. and now I face something so random... and I'm not able to solve it. The thought itself gives me a headache

Maybe it's just time to get used to the fact that this router simply isn't a friend of mine

Well you definitely are hehe !

[attachments over 25 days old deleted by admin]

[Shane]

Keep in mind your old modem supported reverse nat. and it might be that way for other users as well.

And also the guide shows users connecting to the server fine. Which is working for you just fine as well

Its hard to tell how many routers support reverse nat and how many don't. But I run into a LOT of users trying to connect to themselves and are using their internet ip and it wont work.

In this case connecting to your local ip is all you need. but thanks tot he way the server is setup it is using the internet ip to connect to the database!

Is there any way for the server to have 2 ips set for the database server in case one fails? Would be perefect if you could put both your local and internet ip in for it.

Shane

[Sylvmeister]

Hmm. I believe this is just the way the emulator works and trying to change it would
require alot of programming knowledge which I don't have. I'm going to ask the makers of the emulator (if I can reach them). They might understand such behavior as they know exactly how the connections work. I see I should've done it in the first place but I really didn't think it was something that complicated.

Anyways, thanks for your time !

Sylv